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Post by F.G.D Slayer, Mello on Feb 25, 2016 19:41:11 GMT -6
So I was doing some tests with taka on the test server and someone on my pager messaged me, giving me a suggestion. Now usually I either dismiss these types of suggestions because I think they're random and not well thought out but this one caught my attention and it made me think for a little bit.
In the end I couldn't decide and figured that, since it would end up being something that the players may or may not be using, I might as well get some of your opinions and suggestions on it.
Simply put, should players have the ability to get all 5 elements?
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Post by Zezu Sarutobi on Feb 25, 2016 20:03:12 GMT -6
if your going to limit the number of fusion elements they can get with them sure. Also since this game is going off cannon,game and fillers, i dont see why not. just add a element gain to sannin/kage unless you guys made a new way to get elements.
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Feb 25, 2016 23:19:18 GMT -6
Just give each elements "Ranks" ranging from 0 to 100.
Your "Natural Born" element is automatically rank 50.
All other elements must be at most 40 below you Natural Born, unless you get additional traits with certain reqs. If you get these additional traits it becomes 40 below your Natural Born and Proficient elements (Ones which you receive traits for). So the maximum for any element that you do not have proficiency in/are not naturally born with would be 60. Being below certain Ranks would prohibit you from learning certain higher level elemental Jutsu.
For instance, without at least 55 Fuuton, you can learn Shinkuuha, but every Fuuton after that requires another 5 ranks. So you'd only be able to get, at best, the second Danzo Fuuton if you are neither naturally born or proficient in said elements.
Maybe make "Proficient" elements be 25 below Natural instead of 40 below, to keep having multiple proficiencies from becoming too unbalanced as well. Also could potentially make both elements for a Fusion Element require at least Rank 75 in both elements.
I should mention, with this method, you hopefully will not have to restrict people from potentially HAVING jutsu from every element, but you could adjust it to where each additional element you start mastering has a lower potential cap possibly, to balance elements if it gets too crazy, like with someone using Doton Numa and then Meikakkyu XD.
You'd basically have all elements from birth, one you are naturally super-gifted at, and then the others you train up on your own to hopefully end up with a good mix of elements that you'd like.
An alternative suggestion to this is make it:
Natural Born: Caps at Rank 100 Second Element you Train in: Caps at Rank 60 Third Element you Train in: Caps at Rank 50 Fourth Element you Train in: Caps at 30 Fifth Element you Train in: Caps at 20
Then make a random chance of you becoming "amazingly adept" and Elements 2 through 5, boosting the caps of said element by 25, which would turn the table to look like this:
Natural: Rank 100 Second: Rank 85 Third: Rank 75 Fourth: Rank 55 Fifth: Rank 45
Should only be able to gain a max of two adepts though.
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Post by Zezu Sarutobi on Feb 26, 2016 13:01:21 GMT -6
you idea are always so interesting
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Feb 26, 2016 20:52:05 GMT -6
I forgot some details though lol. Like, what to do about making you able to train an element. Oh well.
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Post by Zezu Sarutobi on Feb 26, 2016 21:22:57 GMT -6
easy ,killing npc,players, or even using alot of elemental jutsus can train them
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Feb 28, 2016 14:28:14 GMT -6
easy ,killing npc,players, or even using alot of elemental jutsus can train them Meant more in the case of 'Bringing the Element up to Rank 1' since aside from your Natural element, they'd all be starting at Rank 0. Maybe talk to an NPC who gives you a task, promising a newbie elemental Jutsu scroll as a reward, giving you the first Jutsu of the element.
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Post by Zezu Sarutobi on Feb 28, 2016 14:36:53 GMT -6
idk i like learning elemental jutsu by lvling up if the npc can also help sure i dont mind having both as a mean to get a skill
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Post by Tidus on Feb 28, 2016 17:58:25 GMT -6
I support the idea of players being able to obtain 5 elements. With the exception to certain clans with Kekkei genkais(Think that's how it's spelled. It's been a long time since I've nerded out on Naruto). Those exceptions that come to mind would be Gaara(I think the reasons are obvious on this one) Uchihas(They can already copy Justus no need for them to further build upon that. Haku's, Senjus, Yotsuki and Deidara. I honestly don't recall all the clans so I may have left some out but for now those are what come to mind.
Kurei touched basis on a proficiency idea which is pretty close along the lines of what I had in mind for this, however I don't think he touched basis on how these elements are obtained(If he did my apologies for overlooking). In the shinobi universe everyone starts out in the academy and somewhere between that and Genin they find out their affinity. This will obviously stay the same and the second element of course(If the player has a second) will be obtained from becoming a Chunnin. Now here's where things are going to branch off. In order to further advance yourself in the ways of Ninjutsu you'll need "Ninjutsu Knowledge". How do you obtain this knowledge? Simple. You observe others around you and take note. I suggest that we either A) create a verb for all players(Except clan members mentioned earlier) to have an "Observe" verb that will let them focus on a nearby player. If said player casts an unknown Jutsu. Your character will study said Jutsu retaining knowledge of it and the seals used to perform it. B) A verb that allows one player to teach another player the hand signs for low tier jutsus(Water Dragon, Fire ball, Earth wall) ect. Please note the Jutsu is NOT passed on. Just the hand seals to perform it.
Okay so now you know the hand seals. What comes next? You have to practice using them and applying chakra to cast the Jutsu. While a player is "Observing" or "Learning" another player. They will have a new tab that says "Practice" you'll have a verb for practicing your hand seals until you've mastered the seals needed to perform a Jutsu you were shown. After doing so you'll get a new verb that says "Practice *Insert Jutsu name*" The practice period should be somewhat tedious. An unknown amount of uses will be needed for you to get your first successful use of the Jutsu. Once you've used it for the first time the "Practice" tab will disappear. The higher your chakra Control is, the more likely it is that you will obtain the Jutsu and finish the training faster.
Once you've obtained a 3rd element via methods above. You can now start to obtain non affinity jutsus of this element on your own from simply leveling up. A fourth element will be available to be obtained after 500 - 1000 levels of growth. In other words you cannot obtain a new element unless you grow by 500 to 1000 levels after obtaining the previous one, UNLESS you're level capped because by that standard you're already a master shinobi right? Right. Fourth and Fifth elements will be learned the same way as the 3rd so no real need to go in depth about that.
Now let's get down to the advantages. Advantages would be that you'll be able to have more versatile ninjas and can enjoy expanding your character. Next advantage or well maybe advantage isn't the word for this l, but! It'll give players additional things to do besides hit a log 24/7(Yes I know Leveling has new methods in 3.0 lemme lone) and gives players alternate ways to interact other than PvP.
Ways to balance this: This is where the proficiency system will come into play. Unless you have a Kekkei Genkai your second element will have a damage reduction on all jutsus of said element. Example a non clan player with 5k nin and a secondary element of Suiton would only deal 3,750 instead of the whole 5k(75% opposed to 100) fourth element would be 65% and fifth would be 55% of the base damage. Don't get discouraged. There is a way to increase this. I believe that as a capped player. Each of their elemental proficiencies(Except for their affinity and secondary) should be raised to the 75 damage percentile. Why do this? Because it's been proven that master Shinobis that have wielded five elements have used each of them on extremely powerful levels. Two prime examples are Kakashi and Hiruzen Sarutobi. This also gives players a new goal to strive for when capping their characters.
I believe I've covered everything that came to mind. If anything seemed unclear feel free to ask me for clarity(This was typed on my phone so I'm sure I probably didn't explain it too well). For those who will Tl;DR Players can learn elements from each other. Practice very hard to learn Jutsu. Level up for more Jutsu. God tier
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Feb 29, 2016 9:04:02 GMT -6
Your idea of obtaining new jutsu to basically gain new elements is far better than the one I added above with no real detail since I was kinda stumped on it NPCs only came to mind because of a really, really old game that had something similar. Proficiencies feel a bit more streamlined in your case too; rather than increasing your overall cap with elements (thus effecting what you can learn) past your first you basically penalize the damage until the player is equivalent to a master-level fighter, which is a nice touch. Also like what the stuff you mentioned seems capable of doing for wipe longevity, though it neglects to account for the cap change (Sefi said he was consolidating the 10k levels into 100 levels) which is to be expected since we don't know too much on that front. Maybe rather than focusing on levels, focus on the Ninjutsu Knowledge you mentioned, and the elemental proficiency system -- tying Jutsu obtainment past the most basic jutsu to how well you've trained each element. @ The Uchiha thing, they'd at least need to be able to participate in the system. Maybe make Copied jutsus increase proficiency with an element much slower, and make them weaker than if you had the proper proficiency/Nin Knowledge to learn said jutsu? This penalty would of course come undone when your Nin Knowledge/Proficiency are at the appropriate values to be using said jutsu.
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Post by Tidus on Feb 29, 2016 10:01:02 GMT -6
Ah that's right I did forget Sefi said he would change the level cap. A simple changing of the level scaling ranges can fix that or the idea of just making it based on the Ninjutsu knowledge. Either works to be honest, however the main reason I wanted to focus on levels is because I felt that the way jutsus have been portrayed in the show is that they become greater as the wielder becomes stronger. A good example of that is Naruto's Rasengan. He used it religiously after he learned it throughout part 1 and into Part 2, but between part 1 and 2 we've never seen any significant change into the Jutsu until he returned in part 2 as a stronger individual(Then we slowly start getting a ton of new more powerful variations as Naruto grew in the story) same can even be said about Sasuke's Chidori, but I think the latter is a better example.
As for the Uchiha thing, it's my understanding that they already can naturally breakdown the concept of any Jutsu just by watching it and thus they copy it via sharingan. That's why I didn't feel the need to include them. They can be included though if needed. I'm more so concerned about other clans like Deidara and Gaara that would be able to abuse having 4 other elements. Can you imagine how scary it would be for a Gaara to Trap you in Kyuu. Then start going Avatar on your ass with fire balls earth spikes or even Chidori? Or a Deidara trapping you in water prison then using c0? ....Actually okay I'd LOVE to see that second one, but anyway yeah I just didn't want certain clans to be able to abuse it too much.
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♛Stigmata Gillz©
Sound Organization
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Post by ♛Stigmata Gillz© on Feb 29, 2016 11:16:15 GMT -6
Ah that's right I did forget Sefi said he would change the level cap. A simple changing of the level scaling ranges can fix that or the idea of just making it based on the Ninjutsu knowledge. Either works to be honest, however the main reason I wanted to focus on levels is because I felt that the way jutsus have been portrayed in the show is that they become greater as the wielder becomes stronger. A good example of that is Naruto's Rasengan. He used it religiously after he learned it throughout part 1 and into Part 2, but between part 1 and 2 we've never seen any significant change into the Jutsu until he returned in part 2 as a stronger individual(Then we slowly start getting a ton of new more powerful variations as Naruto grew in the story) same can even be said about Sasuke's Chidori, but I think the latter is a better example. As for the Uchiha thing, it's my understanding that they already can naturally breakdown the concept of any Jutsu just by watching it and thus they copy it via sharingan. That's why I didn't feel the need to include them. They can be included though if needed. I'm more so concerned about other clans like Deidara and Gaara that would be able to abuse having 4 other elements. Can you imagine how scary it would be for a Gaara to Trap you in Kyuu. Then start going Avatar on your ass with fire balls earth spikes or even Chidori? Or a Deidara trapping you in water prison then using c0? ....Actually okay I'd LOVE to see that second one, but anyway yeah I just didn't want certain clans to be able to abuse it too much. Things will go through quite a bit of balancing, so I doubt that Suirou+C0 concern will hold much merit.
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Feb 29, 2016 13:05:50 GMT -6
Ah that's right I did forget Sefi said he would change the level cap. A simple changing of the level scaling ranges can fix that or the idea of just making it based on the Ninjutsu knowledge. Either works to be honest, however the main reason I wanted to focus on levels is because I felt that the way jutsus have been portrayed in the show is that they become greater as the wielder becomes stronger. A good example of that is Naruto's Rasengan. He used it religiously after he learned it throughout part 1 and into Part 2, but between part 1 and 2 we've never seen any significant change into the Jutsu until he returned in part 2 as a stronger individual(Then we slowly start getting a ton of new more powerful variations as Naruto grew in the story) same can even be said about Sasuke's Chidori, but I think the latter is a better example. As for the Uchiha thing, it's my understanding that they already can naturally breakdown the concept of any Jutsu just by watching it and thus they copy it via sharingan. That's why I didn't feel the need to include them. They can be included though if needed. I'm more so concerned about other clans like Deidara and Gaara that would be able to abuse having 4 other elements. Can you imagine how scary it would be for a Gaara to Trap you in Kyuu. Then start going Avatar on your ass with fire balls earth spikes or even Chidori? Or a Deidara trapping you in water prison then using c0? ....Actually okay I'd LOVE to see that second one, but anyway yeah I just didn't want certain clans to be able to abuse it too much. Things will go through quite a bit of balancing, so I doubt that Suirou+C0 concern will hold much merit. Touche on many points. But the Avatar one excited me a bit, bad idea to use that as a point of comparison
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