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Post by If ur reading this its to late on Jul 20, 2012 13:02:21 GMT -6
Lemme know what you think =/.
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Post by Swag~arashi on Jul 20, 2012 15:15:00 GMT -6
They simply make it much too easy to evade attacks and flee attackers.
The only downside I see to removing it is maneuvering around things, like if an NPC stands in front of the hosp you'd no longer be able to move around them.
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Post by Juanderfull on Jul 20, 2012 15:16:12 GMT -6
I use a laptop no mouse so diags is un usable for me unless i use the number thing to move.
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Post by Juanderfull on Jul 20, 2012 15:24:08 GMT -6
>.> i didnt.. and i cant click and move at the same time T-T
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Post by Apex Barry on Jul 20, 2012 15:25:22 GMT -6
I used diags on my laptop, and I use them on my desktop.
I don't think they should be disabled, and people that do probably have lost to people that fight with diags, unwilling to admit a loss. At least Gillz admits he doesn't do well against diag users. Man up, seriously. I've won against diag users and I've lost against them, the only thing I see is that it forces people who don't diag to be more versatile and stop practicing their played out combos they normally use.
If anything, make some jutsu able to go diagonally (obviously multi-tiled ones won't be able to, but most of the single tiled ones already can).
tl;dr: No.
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Post by Onime no Kyo on Jul 20, 2012 15:57:47 GMT -6
I'm gonna say no. I don't use diags, and I honestly hate fighting people who do use them, but that is no reason for them to be removed. Some people enjoy using them, and if I was to say "Take them out just because I don't like fighting them" would be completely wrong and unfair to those players.
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Jul 20, 2012 17:31:10 GMT -6
I'm gonna say yeah, they should.
Not because I don't like fighting people who use them, but because of something I've noticed. When you use a diagonal key as opposed to a standard direction key, you end up moving exponentially faster than you normally would. Also, certain binding jutsu can be automatically escaped with proper timing.
For example, sand coffin: I was hit by a gaara's sand coffin, but I had diag'd @ the right moment, so ended up out and able to use jutsu. Downside? I was bugged and the gaara was able to spam sousou.
Diags do offer some strategy--such as wind blade'ing someone who's about to come at you and then diag'ing to avoid getting hit like you would if you moved forward. But at the same time, they've got some bugs. Advantage in combat is one thing, but advantage through bugs is another.
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Post by hermes123 on Jul 20, 2012 18:15:22 GMT -6
I use diagram for getting to villages to villages but I hats fighting people who use it for combat so I vote undecided
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Post by Apex Barry on Jul 20, 2012 22:14:56 GMT -6
I'm gonna say yeah, they should. Not because I don't like fighting people who use them, but because of something I've noticed. When you use a diagonal key as opposed to a standard direction key, you end up moving exponentially faster than you normally would. Also, certain binding jutsu can be automatically escaped with proper timing. For example, sand coffin: I was hit by a gaara's sand coffin, but I had diag'd @ the right moment, so ended up out and able to use jutsu. Downside? I was bugged and the gaara was able to spam sousou. Diags do offer some strategy--such as wind blade'ing someone who's about to come at you and then diag'ing to avoid getting hit like you would if you moved forward. But at the same time, they've got some bugs. Advantage in combat is one thing, but advantage through bugs is another. What you said was a major disadvantage to using diags. I've also noticed it can get you out of some stuns by a single frame (Nara and Sousou). However, you cannot use any jutsu because you still are in binded status, you can just move around. That's a disadvantage because by then the fight is already lost, you can only log out because you can no longer train, and that bug is probably something that can be fixed. Not even abuse-able honestly, since there's no point in doing it (you can be binded again right away by Sousou and if a Nara is good, by shadows). Also, because diag'ing seems to make you run faster (emphasis on seems) it is also harder to land attacks than normal, especially when using swords. Personally sometimes I end up moving forward a few tiles by accident when I swing, missing completely when I normally would've hit. In addition, I back up what Kyo said. A bad strategy when making a game is to take out things like this that people like, just because you don't (that's not aimed directly at you, Kurei). Trying to force someone to fight like you just isn't right, everyone has their own methods of fighting and to be honest, I've seen quite a few people beat a person using diags (either the diag user sucked, or the person using cardinals was just plain better).
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Jul 21, 2012 3:03:01 GMT -6
Aye, the bugs can be fixed, probably. But the easier solution would be just disabling diags.
Like I said, I don't mind fighting diag's (In fact, owned jordan when he was diag'ing for jashin scythe hits b/c he got numa'd xD), it's just that if it's buggy, why keep it around? Same goes for that speed thing--you do get notably faster, and the speed can't be re-adjusted, since it's still technically the default moverate.
Also, in regards to the 'bad strategy to take out things that people like' part--isn't that kind of why it's a poll and not a straight "you should pull this out and here's why!" kind of suggestion? If the yes's wins over no's, then it's not really a matter of people liking it @ that point.
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Post by Apex Barry on Jul 21, 2012 12:22:25 GMT -6
Also, in regards to the 'bad strategy to take out things that people like' part--isn't that kind of why it's a poll and not a straight "you should pull this out and here's why!" kind of suggestion? If the yes's wins over no's, then it's not really a matter of people liking it @ that point. Actually, it is. Not everyone that plays is on these forums, and the players on the forums that prefer more traditional (cardinal) movements outnumber those that actually use Diags to fight (even in game, there's a far greater number of those that use cardinals than not). Not everyone that says yes will have as profound an opinion as yours is, most people just want it disabled because they're annoyed with it, which brought this issue of removing it up in the first place. In fact, in RoTP (Rise of the Pirates) both the diagonal and cardinal movement speeds appear to be the same. So I know the issue with speed can be resolved somehow, without the removal of diags. The only two bug issues I know of are with the Nara Bind and Kyuu (that part from you, I never experienced that issue before). Some clans can move in Tree Gen and such because Matt programmed it like that. If the numbers that used diags and cardinals were even, then I would support a poll on it, but seeing as the number of users of it are greatly outnumbered (and virtually no one that does not use them shares the same ideal as Kyo does) then a poll to remove this is not really fair towards the ones that do use them.
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Post by If ur reading this its to late on Jul 21, 2012 14:48:25 GMT -6
For the record, I never voted on this because I have no strong feelings one way or another.
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Post by Kurei Hiitaka on Jul 21, 2012 16:57:11 GMT -6
True. Though I admit the part of my reasoning I left out is anything but nice (like the lawlz, and qqing due to something being removed causes lots of it). xD
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kamu
ROOT
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't."
Posts: 524
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Post by kamu on Jul 21, 2012 17:06:34 GMT -6
o.o I can go both ways so i dotn mind digz, (No homo rofl)
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Post by Apex Barry on Jul 22, 2012 9:14:11 GMT -6
"Real ways to fight" being using cardinals, when people more skilled than you (like Noshi, Roy, Gillz [he has beaten a few diagers, just had a hard time of it], Mello, Death, and other swordsmen) can kill diag users with ease. And it's not even that easy to hit your opponent while diag'ing due to the speed. Sometimes you'll run past them or they'll simply walk out, it's actually easy to predict when a diag user will strike (that's how I beat a Yotsuki that was diag'ing with his shunshin/raiton armor on). Just learn how to fight better. Then you'll stop whining about diagonals. Tbh, if it's a kai-able gen then I don't have a prob with people using it. Some people resort to hand-binding gens and everyone complains against the use of those. A lot of people that USE hand-binding gens complain when it's used against them (often times people gen and ohko, and that's unsportsmanlike in my personal opinion. @roy I never said you went either way > I said that the complaints are the reason the issue of removing them was brought up.
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Post by Jordanland on Jul 22, 2012 9:18:28 GMT -6
Hell yeah. I'm gonna be truthful, I hate people who use diagonals when fighting. Train sword skill, diag to your enemy, hit with sword, diag away until you can hit again, wash, rinse, and then repeat. Then they're the same people who when you slow them down, cry and whine. Eliminate. The. Diagonals. Please. Maybe people will find real ways to fight. This is One Stupid Reason for disabling Diag. Just cuz you dont like fighting someone who diag. you want it disabled? Diag. Is just a movement Which is sort of better then Moving with the Arrow keys. Its harder to hit someone diag. then it is with the arrow keys(trust me ik). You dont need to slow someone down to hit them that's just you being a total noob. The one who whines the most is the ppl who cant use diag. right or cant use them at all. The point in all of this is Ppl are going to complain about everything that they die to. Case in point your reason
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Post by Death on Jul 22, 2012 9:24:45 GMT -6
Mello, Death, and other swordsmen) can kill diag users with ease. Are you kidding? Diag users are nearly impossible to hit, I've lost to so many while defeated... 3? 4? The only counter I could ever come up with is to use diagonals myself, which I can't anymore since I'm using a numberpadless laptop, and the way my keyboard is setup it'd be nearly impossible to use both diagonals and cardinal movements.
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Post by Apex Barry on Jul 22, 2012 10:02:52 GMT -6
Mello, Death, and other swordsmen) can kill diag users with ease. Are you kidding? Diag users are nearly impossible to hit, I've lost to so many while defeated... 3? 4? The only counter I could ever come up with is to use diagonals myself, which I can't anymore since I'm using a numberpadless laptop, and the way my keyboard is setup it'd be nearly impossible to use both diagonals and cardinal movements. You beat me without them though lol I didn't even land a hit. And it's not nearly impossible > Lazaro easily won as well (I couldn't hit him either), there's actually a trick to beating people who diag melee. I learned it from just watching you guys beat me lol
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Post by Death on Jul 22, 2012 10:47:23 GMT -6
Guess I'm subconsciously plotting against diagonals and I didn't even notice xD
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Post by Swag~arashi on Jul 22, 2012 13:32:20 GMT -6
Diags are annoying.I'm sure that's something most of us can agree on. Now whether they should be removed is something I'm still thinking about.
It may not be so bad when a melee fighter is using diagonals, personally I can defeat them.(not without 10x the effort..)But.. there are people who throw or use mainly ninjutsu. Now if you've fought anyone like this as a melee fighter you have become rendered completely useless. It is too easy to flee an opponent or dodge attacks with them. Diagonals supply you with the "skill" of dodging that took vets months of playing to get.
I hate um'.
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